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The “Real” Paul

MLK’s Letter from Birmingham Jail – “A Call for Unity” (1963)

Question: Bible Trivia Question?

Revelation 21:14 states:

“The wall of the city also had twelve foundation stones, and on them the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.”

a) Whose names (specifically) were written on the stones and why?
b) How does the apostle Paul factor in?

10 points to whoever can get it right first AND support their answer. =)

*note:
This is asking for a list of 12 and support of that list. It is not asking for the meaning of the vision.
To Gabriel:

I didn’t mean the twelve tribes of Israel from verse 12, I meant the “apostles of the Lamb” from verse 14.
To Gabriel Again:

lol its fine, don’t worry about it. I’ve done much sillier things in the past =P *gives Gabriel 10 brownie points to make it up to him*

Answer: Matthew 10:2 The names of the twelve apostles are these: First, Simon, the one called Peter, and Andrew his brother; and James the [son] of Zeb′e·dee and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bar·thol′o·mew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the [son] of Al·phae′us, and Thad·dae′us; 4 Simon the Ca·na·nae′an, and Judas Is·car′i·ot, who later betrayed him.

Since Judas left the group, Matthias was appointed.

Acts 1:23 So they put up two, Joseph called Bar′sab·bas, who was surnamed Justus, and Mat·thi′as. 24 And they prayed and said: “You, O Jehovah, who know the hearts of all, designate which one of these two men you have chosen, 25 to take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas deviated to go to his own place.” 26 So they cast lots over them, and the lot fell upon Mat·thi′as; and he was reckoned along with the eleven apostles.

The testimony of the Holy Scriptures is clear that the apostle Paul was never referred to as one of “the twelve.” Therefore, it logically follows that one of “the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb” inscribed on the foundation stones of the New Jerusalem is that of Matthias and not that of Paul. This means that the vision of the apostle John reflects the situation that existed at the start of the Christian congregation on the day of Pentecost in the year 33 C.E.

Plus when one of the 12 died, they did NOT appoint someone to take his place, as seen when the apostle James was killed.

So, no apostlic succession. When Peter died, no one replaced him.

Romans 8:38-39

Question: Is it correct that the 12 apostles of Jesus were not the same people whom wrote the Gospels?

A minister taught me this in a class about Christianity. I learned that the Gospels were written at least 60+ years after the death of Jesus by people using pseudonyms. So the original apostles were not the authors. A lot of people think that Paul of Tarsus also was an apostle, which he was not, he never even met Jesus (other than in a vision on the road to Damascus). So in actuality, the Bible was written by people who most likely never saw Jesus. What do you guys think about this?

I have a lot of love for Christians, so I hope no one considers this an attack. I am just curious if most Christians were aware of Bible history. Scholars know that there is a common unfound source that the original Gospels use, but the the Gospel of John did not use this source, and was more a revision of the original 3.

Answer: Yup. It was common during that time to write something and name it after someone important.
So there is author by tradition, author/sources by conjecture and conjectured editor.
Scholars on the subject have come up with various hypothesis for the gospels and the rest of the bible. Q source are sayings of Jesus that are common to both Matthew’s and Luke’s gospel; most scholars believe that both authors used a common “sayings” gospel, similar to the Gospel of Thomas, which is now lost; other scholars believe that Luke simply copied the sayings he liked out of the Gospel of Matthew

I’ll give you a link to an interesting chart of biblical writers.

http://www.lost-history.com/authors.php

Paul Wagler: Ancient Empires and Conquerors: Reflections on my recent trip to Turkey, Greece and Italy

My wife and I had an opportunity to join an archaeological tour of Turkey with friends. We decided to visit Greece and Italy at the…

Apostle Paul, Saul of Tarsus, 13th Disciple from Hell

Question: wHat iF …. ? (christians only)?

guys what if there was no trynty thing or the resurrection , and it was just a conspiricy made by the jews at start since Jesus himself never had he ever said in the bible ( to worship him) .

so what if the jews on there head st.paul wanted to change the christian ideoligy by placing new facts such as the son of god and the ressurection and the wine and bread thing .
since we all know that Paul was jewish at the beginning and then claimed to be the new apostle .

i dont know but i think by my moderate readin for human religons i belive that the jews were behind alot of bad events therefor we peaople still have conspiricy thoeres unsolved and think that the jews have somthin to do with it (atleast) .

4 instant a jewish guy had playe a big role in changing the religon of islam and brought wat we now call the ” shiite ” a starange form of group in islam .
2nd . the jewsh also support the most conspiricy group or society called MASON or the KNIGHT TEMPLER .

and many more ..

Answer: The Papal Bull
“In Eminenti”
Given by His Holiness Pope Clement XII
April 28, 1738

CLEMENT, BISHOP, Servant of the Servants of God to all the faithful, Salutation, and Apostolic Benediction.

Since the divine clemency has placed Us, Whose merits are not equal to the task, in the high watch-tower of the Apostolate with the duty of pastoral care confided to Us, We have turned Our attention, as far as it has been granted Us from on high, with unceasing care to those things through which the integrity of Orthodox Religion is kept from errors and vices by preventing their entry, and by which the dangers of disturbance in the most troubled times are repelled from the whole Catholic World.

Now it has come to Our ears, and common gossip has made clear, that certain Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles called in the popular tongue Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons or by other names according to the various languages, are spreading far and wide and daily growing in strength; and men of any Religion or sect, satisfied with the appearance of natural probity, are joined together, according to their laws and the statutes laid down for them, by a strict and unbreakable bond which obliges them, both by an oath upon the Holy Bible and by a host of grievous punishment, to an inviolable silence about all that they do in secret together. But it is in the nature of crime to betray itself and to show itself by its attendant clamor. Thus these aforesaid Societies or Conventicles have caused in the minds of the faithful the greatest suspicion, and all prudent and upright men have passed the same judgment on them as being depraved and perverted. For if they were not doing evil they would not have so great a hatred of the light. Indeed, this rumor has grown to such proportions that in several countries these societies have been forbidden by the civil authorities as being against the public security, and for some time past have appeared to be prudently eliminated.

Therefore, bearing in mind the great harm which is often caused by such Societies or Conventicles not only to the peace of the temporal state but also to the well-being of souls, and realizing that they do not hold by either civil or canonical sanctions; and since We are taught by the divine word that it is the part of faithful servant and of the master of the Lord’s household to watch day and night lest such men as these break into the household like thieves, and like foxes seek to destroy the vineyard; in fact, to prevent the hearts of the simple being perverted, and the innocent secretly wounded by their arrows, and to block that broad road which could be opened to the uncorrected commission of sin and for the other just and reasonable motives known to Us; We therefore, having taken counsel of some of Our Venerable Brothers among the Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, and also of Our own accord and with certain knowledge and mature deliberations, with the plenitude of the Apostolic power do hereby determine and have decreed that these same Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations, or Conventicles of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or whatever other name they may go by, are to be condemned and prohibited, and by Our present Constitution, valid for ever, We do condemn and prohibit them.

Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state, grade, condition, order, dignity or pre-eminence, whether clerical or lay, secular or regular, even those who are entitled to specific and individual mention, that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume to enter, propagate or support these aforesaid societies of Liberi Muratori or Francs Massons, or however else they are called, or to receive them in their houses or dwellings or to hide them, be enrolled among them, joined to them, be present with them, give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support either openly or in secret, directly or indirectly, on their own or through others; nor are they to urge others or tell them, incite or persuade them to be enrolled in such societies or to be counted among their number, or to be present or to assist them in any way; but they must stay completely clear of such Societies, Companies, Assemblies, Meetings, Congregations or Conventicles, under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required, and from which no one can obtain the benefit of absolution, other than at the hour of death, except through Ourselves or the Roman Pontiff of the time.

Moreover, We desire and command that both Bishops and prelates, and other local ordinaries, as well as inquisitors for heresy, shall investigate and proceed against transgressors of whatever state, grade, condition, order dignity or pre-eminence they may be; and they are to pursue and punish them with condign penalties as being most suspect of heresy. To each and all of these We give and grant the free faculty of calling upon the aid of the secular arm, should the need arise, for investigating and proceeding against those same transgressors and for pursuing and punishing them with condign penalties.

Given at Rome, at Saint Mary Mayor, in the year 1738 of Our Lord.

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